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BeckyGunn started following Behavior issues and FBA in preschool
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I have a four year old level two autistic grandson and he is attending public preschool in a class blended with special needs and typical children. The class has eight children, one special education teacher and three aides. He is having behavioral issues, such as biting, hitting, and scratching his teachers and students. He does this at home as well. He does talk some, but can’t communicate very well. His teacher has tried to pinpoint what the cause of the behavior is but it’s pretty random. She says that he does not like to sit and do his work and has trouble with non preferred activities, which cause the behaviors most of the time. I’m on the fence about her forcing him to sit at the table until his work is completed. I can see that he needs to get use to attending non preferred activities, but he is definitely having a hard time adjusting. We called an IEP meeting yesterday to discuss the behavioral issues and they did propose we do a FBA and meet again in December, which we agreed to. They are being very helpful and offered to meet anytime we feel necessary. Being new to all this, I wasn’t sure if they would provide a PWN or if it was needed since he’s only in preschool. We live in Alabama if that’s helpful. I kinda think his behavior is due to his teacher being ridged in the way she runs her classroom and he is sensitive to noise, and she agrees, but says he needs to get use to that in order to be more successful in Kindergarten next year. Any insight would be appreciated, as I’m brand new to dealing with the school system. I do feel like they are trying to help him by offering the FBA as a start.
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JLUV joined the community
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What should the timeline be after an evaluation?
Lisa Lightner replied to Alicia's question in IEP Questions
So first of all, as you're learning, you have to pick your battles. Seeing as Sept 26 is tomorrow....not sure this is one I'd choose to fight right now. However, there are some red flags. Yes, summers are exempt, the exact wording from the code is: In addition to the requirements incorporated by reference in 34 CFR 300.301 (relating to initial evaluations), the initial evaluation shall be completed and a copy of the evaluation report presented to the parents no later than 60-calendar days after the agency receives written parental consent for evaluation, except that the calendar days from the day after the last day of the spring school term up to and including the day before the first day of the subsequent fall school term will not be counted. A couple of clarifications that may help in practice: This applies to initial evaluations. Reevaluations have a different timeline (within 60 calendar days of receiving parental consent, but no later than every 3 years, 2 years for students with intellectual disabilities). The pause only applies if the 60-day window runs into summer. If you gave consent back in, say, February, the school can’t use summer to stretch their deadline, the report should have been finished before the end of the school year. The IEP meeting timeline is separate. Once the report is issued, the team still has 30 calendar days to meet and develop the IEP, regardless of summer break. If the psychologist has already reviewed the results with you, there’s really no reason you can’t have a copy of the written report now. You’re entitled to it—period. Delaying until late September doesn’t line up with the law. (but again, if they said you're getting it tomorrow....I'd just keep that documentation in case I need it later) What I’d suggest: Put your request in writing. Email the school and say you are formally requesting a copy of the evaluation report that was completed July 3rd. Reference the law. You can mention that under IDEA and PA Chapter 14, the district has 60 calendar days to complete the evaluation after consent and must provide parents with the report. Request an IEP meeting date. Ask them to schedule it within 30 days of when you receive the report. You’re not being unreasonable, this is about your child’s right to timely services which is why timelines were put in place. I"d also read up on IEEs, because it sounds like that might be the path you're headed down next. https://adayinourshoes.com/iee-independent-education-evaluation/ -
BeckyGunn joined the community
- Yesterday
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We switched to a Pennsylvania Public Cyber school the following school year after covid and they got the ball rolling asap with the eval. Our local school district dropped the ball big time and after paying several hundred dollars to get my daughter evaluated at Sylvan Learning Center and found out she was more than two years behind academically. Fast forward to May of 2024 and I had some concerns again. The eval seemed rushed (according to the evaluators) to be completed. I just spoke with the school psychologist today after several attempts to find out the results. I have never had this much trouble with the school over getting answers. The eval was completed July 3rd. I'm being told the school is allowed to freeze the iep process over the summer because school is not in session. I'm just wondering if we are still in compliance with the timeline. The school psychologist did go over all the results with me but said it can't be sent home until September 26th. Although I'm grateful for the results but seems crazy I can't have the actual report yet or even have a date for the IEP meeting yet. When trying to find the answer on the PA Dept. Of Ed website, I got conflicting timelines. Any help is appreciated!
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Alicia joined the community
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Paige joined the community
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kanderson314 joined the community
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Dan joined the community
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Should accommodations be listed under the SDI/program modifications section in an IEP in the state of Pennsylvania. The IEP lists VI.Special Education/Related Services/Supplementary Aids and Services/Program Modifications. Then section A. says Program Modifications/Specially Designed Instruction. Does Pennsylvania lump accommodations, modifications, and specially designed instruction together? I’ve seen IEPS that say “preferential seating”, “explicit instruction in phonics instruction”, and “up to 50% reduced workload on assignments based on student need from data collection” all in this same section. What am I missing?
- Last week
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BeckyG joined the community
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Mandypenn76 joined the community
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Social work or mental health services instead of guidance counselor?
Mandypenn76 posted a question in IEP Questions
we are in Coatesville school district (PA) for reference. We have been trying for years to get a relationship with our son and his guidance counselor in each of the schools he’s been in. It’s been an SDI that he can go see the guidance counselor when he wants, we’ve introduced them, etc., etc. But what we can’t get is for the guidance counselor to bring him in or to speak with him. One of the goals on his IEP is to learn to self advocate, which is proving troublesome too because collecting data is difficult for that. But he is not going to request to go talk to somebody, someone’s going to have to pull him in and talk to him The big issue we have is that he’s been bullied in almost every school he has been in. His emotional age is younger than his physical age and now in eighth grade he’s still playing with action figures and getting comments from the kids. Our son will not tell us if he’s being bullied, the only time we know about it is his friend’s parents will let us know if they overhear something. He doesn’t tell teachers, and the teachers don’t report anything (at all!!) to us.We requested a meeting every other week with the guidance counselor. This was the response I got the other day: “I also spoke to the guidance counselor. Unfortunately, they are told not to put specific meeting times in IEPs due to the number of students they serve. But he is on her radar and will schedule an informal recurring 1:1 with N. If we feel something needs to be placed in the IEP, we will have to look towards social work services. Did N ever work with a mental health therapist IN school? We can consider adding a social work screener to determine whether he would qualify for in-school sessions. However, I can see him acing the screener because he is so good at masking his emotions. Let me know your thoughts.” I don’t know much about social work screeners or working with mental health within the schools because it’s never been an option provided to us. They really just don’t have anyone. Also, he does perform when he knows he’s being screened so having a relationship is the most important thing. I am very aware that I need to request a NOREP about the guidance counselor. But what should I do next? -
I'm surprised they have 3 teachers in one classroom for 7 students. Around here, they have one teacher (there's a teacher shortage) and any other adults in the classroom tend to be instructional assistants, paraprofessionals, aides, personal care assistants... It would show up as a 1:2:7 ratio in an IEP. I would want the 3:7 ratio your grandchild has & is successful with noted in her IEP so you can show the school this when she goes to kindergarten and they want to put her into a classroom that's 1:24. It sounds like they will need at least one other adult in the room given she will need to be escorted to the nurse for diaper changes because letting her walk there alone provides an opportunity for elopement. Again, make sure the elopement tendencies and need for diaper changes are noted in the IEP. This is data that one teacher cannot meet her needs and still be teaching her classmates. My personal style is to ask questions: How will my child get to the nurse for diaper changes without attempting to elope from the school? She needs a lot of redirection because she has a hard time sitting still. Will the teacher be able to do this and still be able to provide the class with the academic instruction they need? Given her unwillingness to draw or write, has apraxia been evaluated by the school? Speech, & writing are both fine motor skills. She might need special instruction to be able to write and draw like her classmates - or it could be a skill that's out of reach due to her disability. (Behavior is communication. This might be what the refusal is trying to say.)
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Several years ago, the Pupil Services Director did a presentation comparing the number of due process cases in WCASD & other districts. WCASD had more per pupil than all of the other districts in the county. I'm not sure this has changed in recent years. The amount they budget for due process does keep increasing. They had twice the number as DASD (if I remember correctly) which is close in size.
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Ok, when I saw how long this was, I had to return to it when I had time which unfortunately was not until today. Most of what I'm going to say piggybacks on what others have said. You’ve been through so much, and honestly, the fact that you’ve documented everything this carefully shows just how committed you are to your daughter. It shouldn’t have been this hard, but your record-keeping is going to help you now. To your main question: No, your daughter does not have to switch classes in order to be evaluated for an IEP. Under IDEA (the federal law that governs IEPs), you can make a written request for a special education evaluation. Once the school receives your written request, they’re required to respond, usually by either getting your consent for evaluations or giving you written notice of why they’re refusing. They cannot require her to “try” interventions or switch classes first if you are requesting a full evaluation. Here are some concrete next steps: Put your request in writing. Say clearly: “I am formally requesting a special education evaluation for my daughter to determine if she qualifies for an IEP.” List the areas of suspected disability (anxiety, ADHD, possible learning disability in reading/writing/math if you suspect it). You don’t have to know the exact tests,but it’s powerful and necessary to identify the concerns. Keep it broad. Instead of asking for one kind of test, you can request evaluations in all areas related to her suspected disability. That way the school has to look at academics, functional skills, and social/emotional needs. Timeline awareness. Once you give written consent, the school has a set timeline (which varies a bit by state, but usually around 60 days) to complete the evaluations and hold a meeting. Stay organized. You’ve already shown you’re excellent at this. Keep copies of every email, meeting notice, and plan. If they lose things again, you’ll be the one with the paper trail. Consider outside input. If you can, having her counselor or another professional provide a written statement about her struggles and why testing is important can strengthen your case. Moving forward, you don’t have to solve everything at once. Focus on getting the evaluation process started, that’s the doorway to services and accommodations that actually match her needs. You’ve already stepped up and become her advocate, and now you’re taking the right steps to finally get the right supports in place.
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I don't know if WC is a magnet for issues, I think a lot of it is size bias-- WC and Downingtown both have 10-12000 students, so it feels more frequent. Anyway, I need to come up with a list for parents to use to ask questions when hiring an advocate. There are a few on that list who I would not recommend.... and in fact I would recommend not reaching out to them. but in this litigious society, I'm certainly not going to say who or why.
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It sounds like you’re juggling a lot right now, and I can hear how frustrating this situation must feel. You’re right to notice that some of the “behaviors” they’re reporting aren’t random, they’re connected to work that isn’t appropriate for him developmentally or skill-wise. If the OT already observed that he doesn’t have the grasp or tracking to complete those worksheets, then repeating the same task is just setting him up for frustration. A couple of steps you can take: Document everything (which you’re already doing). Keep notes on the behaviors, the communication you’re getting from school, and any mismatched work examples. Call an IEP meeting sooner rather than later. Bring up the mismatch between his needs (as observed by OT) and the tasks he’s being asked to do. Ask what supports or alternate materials can be used so he can engage successfully. Address staffing concerns in terms of access and safety. Instead of only saying “he needs a 1:1 aide,” focus on the why: toileting, medical management, and meaningful access to instruction. You can also ask what the plan is when the aide leaves the room with him, because right now, that leaves the other students without adequate support. Reframe behaviors as communication. You’ve already identified this, refusal, cursing, boundary issues are his way of showing the environment isn’t working for him. That language can help shift the team’s mindset away from “acting out” and toward “what does he need?” It’s still early in the school year, which makes this a good time to ask for adjustments. You’re not asking for anything unreasonable, you’re asking for your child to have appropriate work, adequate support, and a safe environment for everyone in the classroom. And I have more on 1:1s here: https://adayinourshoes.com/one-on-one-aide-paraprofessional-iep-special-education/
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SPED Budget cuts
Lisa Lightner replied to Manuela's topic in State Specific Bills and Political Issues
Ha ha Carolyn... "Not my problem to solve." And it's not. I'm not unsympathetic to the large issues, but I spend a significant amount of time lobbying for that.....anyway...... Right now the ratio sounds manageable, but you’re right kindergarten will likely look very different with a larger class and less adult support per child. Since you’ve already asked about an aide and felt brushed off, this is a good time to put your concerns in writing. When you ask in an email or at an IEP meeting, you can focus on why she needs the support, not just that you want it. For example: Safety (because of elopement and toileting needs) Access (she can’t fully participate without support for communication and staying engaged) Independence (the aide can prompt, fade support, and help her access academics on her level) You don’t necessarily have to use the word “aide” either....you can describe the support she needs and let the team decide how that’s written into the IEP. Sometimes it shows up as “1:1 adult support,” “parprofessional assistance,” or as specific services tied to toileting, communication, and safety. Also, make sure her IEP reflects her strengths (advanced academics) while addressing the areas that impact her learning (toileting, sitting, writing/drawing, communication). If those needs are clearly documented, the school has to show how they’ll provide the support whether that’s an aide, assistive tech, or other services. It’s great that you’re noticing what works now and planning for what’s next. Getting it into the IEP before kindergarten will give you a much stronger footing than waiting until problems start. Also, read this... https://adayinourshoes.com/iep-kindergarten-transition/ -
SPED Budget cuts
Carolyn Rowlett replied to Manuela's topic in State Specific Bills and Political Issues
First, always keep in mind that budget cuts, financial constraints, etc., should never be a factor in deciding whether or not a child needs specific services. The team determines needs based on data and then figures out how to meet those needs (sometimes has to think outside the box). From a practical standpoint, yes, you may need to give the school district some grace in figuring out how to provide services if finances are an issue. But bottom line, as Lisa would say, "That's not your problem." Does she have an IEP? If not, that's your first step. I would suggest that before this school year ends you reach out to the kindergarten principal and request a special education evaluation. This will be conducted at the beginning of the next school year. If she does have an IEP, request a transition meeting with the pre-school and new grade school teams towards the end of this school year to talk about her transitioning to a new school - specifically going from a 7:3 ration to 20 (or more):1 and what her needs will be. Also ask about the expectations of Kindergarten. If there are some she cannot meet, discuss what services need to be in place for her to access FAPE. If it will have been a year since her last evaluation, I would also request a re-evaluation once school starts next fall. You might also request a Functional Behavior Analysis (FBA) to determine the why's and when's to her elopement so that can be addressed in a Behavioral Intervention Plan (BIP). -
She doesn't have an aide this year. It's 7 kids and 3 teachers which works great right now. I asked several times about an aide and it was brushed off. Her kindergarten class will be way bigger and I need her to have an aide. She elopes, is not potty trained and has a hard time sitting still. Academically she is very advanced, but doesn't want to draw or write. She uses her iPad to communicate.
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Manuela started following BIP , IEP , Disabilities and 1 other
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AngelaNC joined the community
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If he has issues with visual tracking, did the school evaluate that? If an area hasn't been evaluated, the assumption is the student's abilities are the same as a typical student. It sounds like the OT might need to help your child or train the para on what to do. Does he get OT via his IEP? If he needs a 1:1 aide, you need to have the school gather data and show this is what he needs. It sounds like you might need to look at what's in the eval they did to see if 'all areas of suspected disability' were evaluated (if the tracking/tracing issues were shared verbally, the para & teacher aren't going to provide extra help - they will follow what's in the IEP). State requirements are a minimum requirement. Given your child's needs, they might need a 2nd aide since your child is being removed from the classroom so often. You might want to ask for an IEP meeting so you can tweak his IEP.
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There are lots of good advocates working in West Chester since WCASD seems to be a magnet for IEP issues. Let me come up with a list. (Definitely random order.) The REACH Group Educational Consultants, LLC Arc of Chester County Melissa Yelito at MY Advocacy LLC Former WCASD Pupil Services Director, Leigh Ann Ranieri now does advocacy: https://ranierieducationconsultant.com/ Marie Lewis Cris Fick Thrive Advocacy Group Who is the right advocate for you will depend on what the issue is. Advocates do tend to specialize to a degree.
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Wanted to reiterate: If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. This can be looked at as a negative by the school but the Office of Civil Rights oversees 504 plans - might be under a different office with changes made since our president took office since lots of things have changed. Given the school seems to have a very, very, extremely poorly managed 504 plan office, it might be worth filing a complaint. A 504 provides accommodations like extra time or a 2nd set of books for home or breaks when a student feel overwhelmed. An IEP provides special instruction to a student to help them reach IEP goals which should align with catching up to where classmates are. I like to get paperwork and forward a copy to the school - just in case the school loses the paperwork. I also want a copy 'for my records'. Every teacher should be implementing 504s. You don't want all 504 students in the same classroom - this isn't best practice. Students shouldn't be placed into a different class to get an IEP evaluation. (After an eval, it might make sense to change classrooms so a student can get the special instruction in the IEP - like the special ed teacher is only there in the morning so they need to move core classes to the afternoon.) Feel free to post again if you have any other questions.
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I would first reach out to the West Virginia Department of Education and ask what the requirements are in this situation in terms of certification and student/teacher ratio. I would also request an IEP meeting to discuss what is occurring and things that might need to be tweaked in the IEP document. You could request an FBA to pinpoint what the school is doing or not doing to trigger the behavior. Of course, the school FBA probably won't find anything wrong with what the school is doing, so then you can request an IEE. An independent evaluator could suggest things the school should be doing (or not doing). Finally, you might want to loop in the director of special education so that he/she knows what's happening.
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Good morning, I am looking for a collaborative and thorough IEP Advocate in West Chester PA. We need clarity, a strong collaborative advocate at this critical academic juncture. Please advise with any contacts. thank you.
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tabrown13 started following KINDERGARTEN SON NEEDS MORE SUPPORT
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Good morning, My son is 6 years old and just started Kindergarten in August. He was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes at 2 years old and with Autism/ADD within the past 2 years. He is listed as Level 2. He is verbal but is a gestalt language learner. He has been in private OT and Speech for years now. He just started Kindergarten at a public school in West Virginia. We have an IEP in place and he was put into a self-contained Level 2 Autism Classroom. The class has 8 total students. 1 teacher (who is not certified) and 1 aide. The aide is out of the classroom with my son to the nurse's office and to toilet him. That means 7 Level 2 students with only the teacher. The aide is already showing signs of stress and we are getting negative notes every day. She practically yelled at my husband at pick up that our son has "been acting like this all day long!!" I mean, he is a Level 2 Autistic kid. Honestly, his behaviors are fairly benign. Some curses, some refusal to do work (work that is inappropriate and that he literally cannot do), some issues with personal boundaries. All things pretty typical I would think. Part of the issue is that we have been in school for not even a month and he has been given the same A-Z tracing papers 20 times. He was literally observed by the OT who said he doesn't have the grasp or visual tracking to do this work. No wonder he is acting out. Either he needs a one to one Aide or his classroom needs more help in general. Im keeping track of everything. What do I do from here? Please help! Thanks so much.
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Does your granddaughter currently have a preschool IEP? Does she have an aide at preschool? If she's currently getting an aide, you have data showing an aide is FAPE for her. That would make it easier to show that an aide is going to be needed in kindergarten.
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Legal trouble, school incident
Sassenach replied to Sassenach's topic in Welcome and Getting Started
Yes, I am in the process of drafting a letter to the ACLU. He was represented by the juvenile court appointed attorney. We signed a consent decree which basically gave him six months of probation in a sense. The other option of pleading not guilty was going to involve him being evaluated by a marriage and family counselor that did not have extensive experience with pediatric mental health. We had heard this particular therapist often sided with the DA and the courts, so we didn’t want to go that route and subject him to further extensive punishment. The DA had no interest in looking at the manifestation determination review or the nine page threat assessment. If he follows all of the rules after six months, all of the charges will be dropped and he will have a clear record. I don’t trust the school will do what’s required to help him stay on a good path. At home, he will have no trouble following the rules because we typically don’t have a lot of big behaviors at home. We are able to redirect him and help him calm down. I am currently looking for a special education attorney and also chatting with our state advocacy group to see how to best meet his needs. -
Thank you so much for the advice! I thought I was doing my best for her at every step. I thought by going in, I was being proactive and getting her the best treatment and help from the school, especially since the one counselor was seemingly ignoring my emails and the fact that he "hadn't received it". That seems to be the theme of the district. Moving forward, if I have to take things in, I will also send an email about that. I hadn't thought of doing both. I have learned so much over the last 2 weeks, and my brain is on overload. I found the "can you show me where it says that?" and plan to take that knowledge with me to meetings. I don't want to go in mistrusting the school because, in the end, we have to work together. I really appreciate this. insight.
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The first thing that jumps out at me throughout your post is that so many of your conversations were over the phone. Keep in mind the following: If it's not written down, it didn't happen. Try to avoid having phone conversations. And if you do have a phone conversation, keep good notes, then send a email with those notes to the person you spoke with stating "this is what we discussed in our conversation on such-and such a date." Especially include anything the school district (by way of the person you spoke with) agreed to do or refused to do. Second, no, your daughter does NOT need to change classes in order to receive an IEP evaluation. That's just plain ridiculous and wrong. If their reasoning behind this is that she has to have an intervention first (as you state above), that is also completely wrong. My advice going forward: 1. Email (EVERY request should be in writing from this point forward) the director of special education requesting a special education evaluation and explaining the roadblock you encountered at the building (school) level of the need for intervention and changing classes (which you have researched and discovered is incorrect). 2. Include in the above request anything that would support the need for an evaluation (anxiety diagnosis; standardized testing, screenings, assessments showing low academic, reading skills/level; comments/emails from teachers that she is struggling (even going back to grade school); the email from the counselor stating that she may have a specific learning disability; etc. 3. Request an evaluation in the following areas: Intellectual/Cognitive (this may be denied if they already have an IQ test on file, as those results do not change much); Social/Emotional/Behavior (to address the anxiety); Academic Achievement (to address the possibility of a specific learning disability). 4. Request from the principal the following documents: all standardized test and screening results; all progress monitoring results from any interventions (even going back to grade school); all 504 evaluations (even if they were "lost," you need something in writing to that effect); a Prior Written Notice that the special education evaluation is being denied because of no intervention (if they are refusing to do an evaluation because you won't switch classes, you are entitled to a Prior Written Notice stating this). 5. If you ever hit a "wall" with anyone, please remember that everyone you deal with has someone in the district they report to. If you can't get anywhere with the principal, find out who the principal's supervisor is and email him/her. Keep going up the chain of command.
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It sounds like you are in Idaho, correct? No — your daughter does not have to switch classes in order to be tested for an IEP. Here’s how it actually works under federal law and Idaho’s rules: 1. Right to an Evaluation Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), any parent can request a special education evaluation in writing. The school must respond to that request — either by getting your written consent and starting the evaluation, or by giving you a written notice explaining why they are refusing. They cannot require your child to change classes as a precondition for testing. 2. Interventions vs. Evaluation Many schools talk about “interventions” or “Response to Intervention (RTI)” before testing. Interventions can be helpful data, but IDEA is clear: schools may not use RTI or class changes to delay or deny an evaluation. If the school believes classroom interventions are necessary, they can run those alongside the evaluation process — but your daughter’s access to testing is not contingent on her class placement. 3. What You Can Do Write a formal, dated request for a special education evaluation. Include concerns about her anxiety, ADHD-inattentive, and possible learning disability. Ask specifically for testing in reading, writing, math, processing speed, working memory, and executive functioning (these are core areas for identifying learning disabilities). Keep a copy for yourself. By law, the school has a timeline (usually 60 days in Idaho) to complete the evaluation after you consent. Answer to the poster’s question: No, your daughter does not have to switch classes in order to get tested for an IEP. Class changes and “interventions” can happen, but they cannot be used to block or delay your right to request an evaluation.
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He has not been in the school since the second day of school (early Aug) I was able to call the state dept and got clarification I needed. We are planning to meet soon to make adjustments to the IEP. I have been asking for extra supports for years only to be ignored or brushed off. Now my son is paying the price - he was “arrested” by the SRO and spent the night in a juvenile diversion center with kids in gangs and others accused of assault, etc. My child watches Disney movies and Barbie. He has a ID and a host of other disabilities. This entire situation is maddening but at this point homebound is his safest option while he’s under supervised “probation” of sorts for 6 months. I do not trust the school will keep him from being sent back to court or the diversion center.