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Wilson Reading System vs OG individualized instruction
JSD24 replied to Betsy's question in IEP Questions
I know that Wilson Reading is a popular intervention in my area. There's a 'tutor center' near me where their person does Wilson Reading when the issue is dyslexia. Wilson Reading is one of the many O-G based programs that are out there. My thought is: progress. If the teacher is certified in basket weaving and the child is catching up to classmates, whatever they are doing is working and that's the whole purpose of the SDIs in the IEP - PROGRESS! I'm also on the side of the school with intervention timing. When I had looked at the Wilson Reading protocol (this has to be pre-COVID), I remember daily and 40-60 minutes. (I'm thinking the protocol might have changed.) With a 3rd grader, I'm thinking that 90 minutes of SDI seems long. With outside tutoring, I'm pretty sure the sessions aren't this long. With any program, they tend to follow the script so they can say they are doing this with fidelity. If he doesn't need that lesson, I'd be fearful that he'll shutdown during the parts he needs to learn. With monitoring progress in reading, I believe they look at WCM - words correct per minute (per hundred?). So long as they are using the same method to measure progress, you'll see progress if it's there. I do like the idea of data more often. Any program will tend to work for ~80% of students. If this isn't the right program, finding that out and changing your approach should happen sooner & you'll see that with more frequent data collection. With a good Structured Literacy, Tier 1 program, there will still be ~20% of the population who has dyslexia per the Connecticut Longitudinal Study. These are the students who need an IEP (or Tiers 2 or 3 with milder issues). They need more intensive instruction than Tier 1 provides. -
Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
JSD24 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
I'm pretty sure they can change his diaper if that is needed. No one in the school should be touching his private parts unless it's part of providing care that, if not done, could be looked at as neglect. -
Betsy started following Wilson Reading System vs OG individualized instruction
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I am working with a 3rd grade student at a private school whose Neuropsych showed diagnosed learning disabilities in reading, written expression and mathematics. Despite strong science of reading phonics instructions, we had communicated concern since 1st grade, but the district testing showed no qualifying needs. The family paid for a neuropscyh out of pocket and then the district re-tested this spring. While we have an OG practitioner working 1:1 with 3 of our students through the public district, the practitioner was put in place through the former CSE chair. The new chair/committee is recommending using an elementary SpEd teacher who is certified in the Wilson Reading System. Their initial recommendation was 30 min/5 days/week. We replied that for WRS to be delivered with fidelity, there needed to be a minimum of 2 days of 90 minute sessions (per the Wilson website). They have now offered 45-60 minutes/day to work on all 3 learning disabilities with regular progress monitoring and a program review in 5-8 weeks. While we are grateful for this increase in services, we're concerned about the more generic curriculum vs individualized OG pacing/instruction because this students' deficits are patchy. What type of data would we need to show that progress (improvement or the rate of improvement) with the WRS is insufficient ? Has anyone had a positive experience with the WRS with students with dyslexia?
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Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
Jennifer11 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
So you still haven’t answered my question. I just need to know if they can touch his private parts without my permission. I get that you’re all for it, and that’s great. I’m just trying to get my question answered. -
Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
Jennifer11 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
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- Yesterday
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Thanks for your reply. Lots of good info there! I did ask the principal that if my son has down syndrome or severe autism, would he have received the same treatment and he said No. The school definitely did not implement the BIP - and yes, it is part of his IEP. I am currently consulting with a sped attorney. The DA was well aware of my son’s multiple disabilities but wasn’t interested in seeing the nine page threat assessment outlining he was (and is not) a threat. He also refused to look at the MDH. We accepted the consent decree bc the other option would not have been positive for him. I have a long list of things I want to do the the IEP and BIP - to include times when he’s “interrogated”. I’ve asked in the past bc I was afraid something like this would happen. My concerns were brushed off - twice. I have not ruled out a state complaint. I’m waiting to see what happens next. Thank you again!
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Thank you for your response. I understand schools need to take threats seriously but think better judgement should have been used and the BIP should have been followed. I have consulted with an attorney who exclusively represents special education families and am awaiting a response to an email I recently sent.
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This reminds me of a situation that happened a few years ago to someone I know. Her child has Downs Syndrome and didn't want to do a worksheet - this was kindergarten. The child shaped their hand 'inappropriately' and while pointing a finger at the teacher said 'I sh**t you'. This was viewed as a terroristic threat so the school followed district policy. Well, the police got called with how the policy said things had to be done. Their policy was that if there was an incident like this, they needed to have a police officer on the team. And if the police are involved, they make a record of it. The parents were livid that this caused their child to have a record with their local police at age 5. (Your situation is this one times 50.) The school's assessment (MDR) showed that what played out was a manifestation of your child's disability - that's what you wrote. And they want to punish him for this? (I want to see the research/evidenced based study that was done showing this works. What they do in schools should be research/evidenced based. I've looked and I'm not aware you can punish the disability out of anyone.) They didn't follow the BIP, things escalated, and he ended up in handcuffs and detained overnight. Have you filed a complaint with your state dept of ed that the school didn't follow the BIP (which I assume is part of his IEP) and this is how it played out? I'm hoping that the administrators attending the administrative meeting with immediate supervisors have more sense and knowledge of special ed and child pedagogy that they put the SRO & AP in their place. If it doesn't play out like that, you're going to need an attorney. Not sure if you need a criminal lawyer or a special ed lawyer - I'm thinking you need someone with experience in both these areas. Diversion is a great option. With other cases involving diversion, I've seen kids need to stay out of trouble until age 18 or 21 so 6 months seems fair (not sure they took your child's disability into account when they decided this because it sounds like he doesn't have the capacity to understand what he did was wrong). What I feel is needed are changes to the IEP where if he does make an unfounded threat, they don't get the SRO and court involved (because it sounds like he doesn't have the capacity to regulate what he says when escalated). I could see SDI put into his IEP to teach him to say something else when he's escalated and his BIP isn't being followed - but, on the other hand, they really need to follow the BIP/IEP since it should work to prevent this happening again. The state complaint should be something you can do on your own - you shouldn't need a lawyer to help you. If you do need help, every state has a parent group that can assist you with things like this. Not sure where you're located or I'd post the link. They are also someone to reach out to with this situation.
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Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
JSD24 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
Strangers shouldn't be touching his privates - I agree with you on that. When a student isn't able to be independent with toileting, it's on the school to care for that student as in loco parentis. Your child is under the care and supervision of the school during school hours. They are not obligated to allow anyone other than school personnel into their buildings. At school, his in loco parentis should be changing him. If he loses a tooth, they should be helping with that. If he needs his shoe tied, they should deal with it. I remember one of the school nurses telling me about a girl who needed to be catheterized in order to pee. It was the school nurse who did this - not a stranger. This was at a middle school and they had a male nurse - one nurse for the whole school. There are times when schools are put into lockdown and no one is allowed to enter. What happens if he needs a change then? To not change him would be neglect. They are going to handle changes the same way you would and it would be appropriate because they are in loco parentis - they aren't strangers. If they are not handing this in a dignified manner, call them out - they should be. -
Title 1 School: teacher not certified? (PA)
Carolyn Rowlett replied to Mandypenn76's question in IEP Questions
I would call the Pennsylvania Department of Education and ask if this is ok. Many requirements for teachers have been modified to address the staffing shortage. But regardless if this is ok or not, the IEP MUST be followed. There is no excuse for not doing this. I would first go over all the accommodations with your son to see which ones are being followed (and if not being followed, does he still need them?). Then I would gather information as to how this failure to follow the IEP is affecting your son in the educational environment - is he getting low grades? is he struggling to turn in assignments, keep up with homework, etc.? is he frustrated or does he "hate" school? are his standardized test scores going down? Then request an IEP meeting (ask that every teacher attend, but you probably won't get that) and ask how accommodations are being implemented and outline the struggles he is having based on not following the IEP. For teachers who are not at the meeting, ask them in an email or phone call or informal meeting (during the latter two taking meticulous notes and following up with an email as to what was said). If you continue to have issues with implementation of the IEP, contact the director of special education. Next step would be filing a state complaint. -
Boy, this is beyond my wheelhouse, so hopefully others will chime in. But her are my thoughts as to the question in your first sentence - thoughts only. Please know that this is not legal advice and that you should probably contact an attorney. I can't imagine a scenario in which a child's right to special education would override safety protocol, which is in place for all students. A school has to take threats seriously even IF they are a manifestation of a disability. Also, some actions taken may be out of their control, such as what happens to him from a criminal standpoint. Knowing what your son's rights are in terms of his disability in a criminal setting is something that should be discussed with an attorney. HOWEVER, the school is still responsible for correct implementation of the BIP. The fact that they missed warning signs should be immediately be addressed. When you say the school "still wants him punished," I'm assuming you mean in the school setting. I believe they would have that right up until he was suspended/removed from the educational environment for 10 cumulative days. If the MDR then found that his disabilities were the cause of his behavior, he could not be suspended beyond those 10 days and a new functional behavior assessment and BIP might be in order. Again, not my wheelhouse and hopefully others will chime in. Also, I highly suggest speaking with an attorney regarding the criminal proceedings and your son's rights in that area.
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We just received a letter that our son's ELA teacher is not state certified. They sent out a "4-Week Consecutive Letter" earlier in the year without specifying which teacher at the school, but now it was listed as his ELA teacher. He had the same teacher last year (no letter). Is this OK, especially with an IEP (this is not being upheld, by numerous teacher, including this one)? What questions do I need to ask?
- Last week
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Can a school’s safety procedures interfere with a child’s special education rights ? Example, my son made “terroristic threats” on the second day of school. Two warning signs in the BIP were missed before this situation escalated. He has an IQ of 68, developmentally is 6-9 years old. Lots of diagnoses that the school is well aware of. Prior to school starting, I explained in great detail that my son had been unable to take ADHD meds since April due to stabilizing his mental health after 2 inpatient stays, plus he had a major concussion over the summer as well. My son was handcuffed and sent to a diversion center overnight and we had court recently where he has to follow a consent decree, and basically be perfect for six months and not have a disability. It’s so obvious he doesn’t comprehend things like the average 13 year old. In court the SRO that detained him and the AP he threatened, both snickered at my son’s questions and statements. After the six months, all charges are dissolved so long as there aren’t any issues. The MDR found his disabilities were the cause of his behavior but the school still wanted him punished. I questioned admin as to why this was allowed to happened and I was told it was due to the school’s safety procedures. I pushed more for answers. The sped director decided an administrative meeting with immediate supervisors was needed. That is to take place this week.
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Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
Jennifer11 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
He’s old enough to know that he doesn’t want people at school touching his privates. And I don’t want strangers touching his privates either. It’s not appropriate or dignified. Can you clarify—can they force me to let them change him? -
Social work or mental health services instead of guidance counselor?
Mandypenn76 replied to Mandypenn76's question in IEP Questions
That's the biggest issue - he's really smart, but struggles with the process of completing things and/or nonpreferred activities. Rewards and consequences have little effect on him (I have SO many discarded token economy charts, etc. that he would just give up on rather than earn the reward), except for screens. He can absolutely do the work, his levels are only slightly below level. His masking skills are incredible. We have always said he "polishes his halo" when anyone is around and it took until January last year for his teachers and case manager to realize that he was not completing work, not telling us about it, and creating elaborate stories about why. (Although all of that was in a parent concerns letter. They didn't believe us.) The result of that is massive meltdowns when he is at home and demand avoidance. So any time we have an observation , he is completely aware of it. I know the FBA is useless, but one hasn't been done since 4th grade (and he's been held back a year) and it claims he is attention seeking <roll eyes here>. His diagnoses...what a mess. The Autism diagnosis only came about 6 months ago, but we've had ADHD, ODD, trauma, PDA, FASD, attachment disorder, anxiety, Proprioception Dysfunction, SPD, and so many other labels. His emotional age is between 8-10. Birth mom was bipolar and had DID. So we constantly feel like we are playing catch-up - and we really don't care what it's called as long as he gets what he needs! Bottom line, he was only just made eligible for ABA, and we hoped it would be helpful even now - and so far, it is. If nothing else, they are helping us clarify his needs. So essentially, I am trying to get to the point where someone at school will teach him the Executive functioning skills that he needs to succeed. He has an EF class, but no one (except us at home) is making sure he is doing those things. Instead of actually assisting him with filling out a homework planner, teachers are writing it down for him. Instead of helping him with a way to remember to turn in a completed assignment (digital or paper), he is getting zeros that he doesn't care about. Honestly, he doesn't care about his grades at all. In terms of future planning, we are feeling just like the boy you mentioned above. IF he goes to college, he will most likely fail out unless he learns these skills. I suppose I am open to the natural consequences of not doing those things, but if it hasn't worked in the past, what will be different now? -
Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
JSD24 replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
The school should be providing FAPE. Your time is valuable so relying on you to do what their staff should be doing really isn't FAPE. The truth is that many kids will need to have diapers changed at school. They need to have staff that can do this. There are some schools where most of the students are very delayed & in diapers. It would be pandemonium to have parents coming to school to do this. Rules vary from state to state on who is allowed to change a diaper. In PA, it's a nurse or a PCA. In other states, the teacher or other types of aides can change a diaper. You might want to ask the school what sort of certification is needed for staff who will be doing this since you seem to want assurance that they will be professional with this task. -
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Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
Lisa Lightner replied to Jennifer11's question in IEP Questions
No, he needs a PCA. Or the school nurse can do it. -
Hi! Can they force me to let them change his diaper? Any time he needs a change I go to the school to change his diaper. We also have regularly scheduled times for me to change him. I’m always available, and do not want them touching his private parts. They don’t like that I come to change him, and keep harassing me to let them change him. Can they force me to let them change his diaper?
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Would government agency help? I deal with older kids, but to be honest if what is happening continues, your kiddo, sounds like he will be my kiddo, but older. In PA in Allegheny county we have liaisons for each school diaristic for mental health. They can sometimes help families get connected to resources and it almost sounds like they need someone to help at home, which might translate to school or at least have someone "official" be able to share with school that there are issues that the family is seeing that don't happen in the summer or during breaks from school. I believe the family, but I hate to say it, parents get blamed a lot even when they are doing everything that they can do. One other thought, I know everyone does not want to deal with lawyers. In Allegheny County we have a few education lawyers who meet with families for free and what they have told me is often times just a letter from them without any other action will allow for thing to happen. It does not need to be a mean letter, but a letter. I am a special ed teacher, with a kid with a hearing loss, my district knows the place I work, and that I work with education lawyers and yet I often times have had to jump through hoops to get what my daughter has needed even when I have data to back my request. I hate to say the squeaky wheel gets oiled and the other wheels get ignored, but you might have to be squeaky.
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Social work or mental health services instead of guidance counselor?
JSD24 replied to Mandypenn76's question in IEP Questions
This might be my prejudice talking but why ABA for a teen? My oldest has autism (diagnosed in 7th grade) and we never did ABA. We went to all sorts of therapists to address mental health issues. Social skills therapy ended up, IMO, making the biggest impact. We did CBT & DBT but with an ODD diagnosis, I don't think ABA would have been a good match. If you're seeing progress with ABA, you might want to stick with it but if you don't see progress, it might be time to change what you're doing. Maybe more therapist & less ABA? Now would be a good time for natural consequences with not handing in work. 8th grade doesn't go on a transcript a college would see but 9th grade does. As far an "natural consequences" goes, my son would not hand in work. He didn't do the big book report project that was assigned each marking period. The school didn't average it in - like it wasn't assigned. If they averaged in the zeros on these, he would have failed English at least once. FBAs. Have you read the blog posts about them? https://adayinourshoes.com/behavior-iep-special-education/ And https://adayinourshoes.com/school-fba-behavior-plan/ An adult observing a student might get to the root of a behavior or it might not. Can you look at a child and see they are hungry & distracted? That they can't read at grade level? I was asked to sit in on an IEP meeting or 2 for a CASD student. He would have been in 11th/12th grade. He had a goal of going to college with a major requiring a lot of reading. He was reading at a 5th grade level. I told them that they need to bring up his reading level if he was going to be successful in college - that's what the transition plan that starts at age 14 should do, develop the skills needed for life after HS. He would have needed to fund college with student loans. I could see him lasting a year and failing out and having a hard time paying any loans off without a college degree. It wasn't a good IEP and he wanted to graduate in 12th grade - not stay for another year and learn to read. Does your son have academic needs & are they being addressed? Is there SDI in the IEP with a goal of catching up? Is he making progress? -
I have a few thoughts. One is: He's got Afterschool Restraint Collapse with masking at school and then letting it out when he gets home. This is a real diagnosis. You can request a 504 meeting and see about putting accommodations into the 504 to help address this disability. To set the meeting up for success, you probably want to bring someone from the afterschool treatment team to the meeting to make sure the 504 supports work to support this aspect of his disability. (In other words, I don't feel the 504 team will believe a parent that he needs support they aren't already providing. They are wanting to hear this from an expert.) Not sure if anyone from outside of school did in-school observations where they have an idea of what sort of support is needed but that's the person to come to the 504 meeting - might be via phone or Zoom. Another thought I have is an IEE at school expense. You didn't say anything about academic needs. Is he pretending to read (masking) during independent reading where he knows he's different academically and this comes out at home as behavior? I'm trying to see what specially designed instruction the school needs to provide to support his disability. Knowing what support he might need, might help me to figure out why they don't see an area of suspected disability they need to assess and address with an IEP. Knowing this would also help to say what an IEE would need to look at. Do you know what the letter requesting the eval said was the areas that needed to be assessed? I can make a guess that social skills or pragmatics might need to be looked at but that's 100% guess. My final thought is to change up the 504 so the Afterschool Restraint Collapse gets accommodated better. It's possible the school is right where an IEP & SDI aren't needed and updating the 504 will help ease what happens at home. Might need to be a series of meetings if you see a little improvement and the accommodations work where more might work better. Also want to mention about Ross Greene & CPS. It's really a way of talking to kids about their problems and then working with them to fix the problem because if you don't understand the reasons for the masking, it's going to be hard to accommodate them. More info here:
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Social work or mental health services instead of guidance counselor?
Mandypenn76 replied to Mandypenn76's question in IEP Questions
Actually, this was a follow-up after his IEP update meeting for the beginning of the year. I've been a bit pushier lately (thanks to the website and everything I am learning!), but this is new for us and I don't have much info on what a mental health eval and/or the IU will do for him. But it took 3 requests to have this specifically written in the NOREP that they were no going to schedule meetings with the guidance counselor. And so far, I have not heard of any times that she has called him in to see him, either. We have a Psychiatrist (for med management), therapist, and ABA therapy outside of school, so I was hesitant to add any more providers at the risk of him being "over clinical-ed" All that to say, NONE of his SDIs are good SDIs, and few are being followed. I have been considering getting an advocate, and yesterday his case manager told me that I should just "let him see the natural consequences of not turning in work" when his one goal on his IEP at the moment is "will complete and submit all assigned classwork and homework each week with no more than 2 missing assignments for 4 consecutive weeks when measured once weekly through check-ins and weekly grade reports." So there needs to be a major overhaul on his IEP. We are waiting on a new FBA, so I am gathering data and trying to figure out next steps. - Earlier
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laurag started following School refused evaluation
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Good morning, I am working with a family who has an adopted son. This late elementary school child has a significant trauma history and in-utero substance exposure. He has been diagnosed with ADHD, attachment issues, anxiety and depression. He has a 504 for his ADHD. This is his first year at this school. The teacher is very supportive and accommodates the child extensively. The child is in 10+ hours of outside therapy per week and is picked up early from school 4 days/week to attend these supports. He is also on 3 mental health medications. The child has explosive behavior at home but the school says the child has no academic or behavioral issues at school. I would love for this child, who is masking all day at school, to get more in-school support. This would in turn reduce stress on the child and family. The school denied the request for evaluation due to 'no adverse impact' at school. The family did provide extensive reports from outside therapists, doctors, and a full neuropsych report all stating his severe challenges. The family has not yet received the PWN. Any advice on how to show the school that his disabilities are affecting him but in delayed and less obvious ways? Thank you for your help!
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I am in CA, too. I had not done observations for a very long time, but have definitely been reminded lately (just did one yesterday) how valuable they are. Districts are very good at spinning the truth to minimize their risk and obligations to provide FAPE, which often equals dollar signs. So, while it may be annoying for you to attend, I learned that observing at the same time as the district/administrator, you can have a more intelligent conversation at an IEP meeting about what was observed. If your BCBA is willing to attend an IEP meeting to discuss their observation, great, but if not, you may want to prioritize being there to offer a likely different perspective that the district will share at a meeting. For limiting it to 20 minutes, I would push back if you want to see how they are doing in a specific subject, time of day, etc. I often put in writing why it's important to request additional time, etc., and connect it to meaningful parent participation and parent rights to ensure the IEP is being implemented with fidelity. I would definitely require them to put their policy in writing and consider if they keep pushing back if they are required to respond to the denial in the form of PWN. I am actually going back and forth with the district because they have denied (verbally) my request to be present at their observations. They are building a case, so they do not want parents to see what is actually taking place when they state he is doing everything independently, etc. I think they are aware that if we observe in a collaborative manner, it will make their narrative much more difficult to "prove". So, I am still requesting that they put their policy in writing because two years ago, the policy was the complete opposite, and one of their district staff was required to be at any parent observation. All that said, keep pushing back and ask your BCBA what is necessary as far as time, as well. Documenting the BCBA's professional opinion and submitting your requests in writing is crucial and is important if you ever file a state complaint or file for due process/mediation. This is speaking as a parent who has participated in both, and what "saved the day" was that we put everything in writing. If it isn't in writing, it didn't happen!
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Answering this many months after it was posted because this was posted as a resource and not a question about an IEP. One thing that I felt was missing from the IEP is mention that parents are providing outside tutoring for 1 hour 3X per week and that the parents feel this is the main reason your child is making progress in her ability to read. I would question how a student who is reading in the 6th percentile per special ed testing is able to get A's and B's in school. Why are they referring to 4th grade Lexile levels when the student is in end of year 5th grade where you'd expect them to achieve the EOY (high end) of the 5th grade level? I see reference to her accommodations on state testing (Georgia Milestone) but they didn't include her results on the IEP - it could be they have this on her evaluation report but my feeling is that this is good data to have to see how she's doing compared with others in the state. These results would provide a more comprehensive picture of her ability. My feeling is the IEP failed to provide FAPE given that your child only started to make progress when you started taking her to a tutor. If she does need a special dyslexia school, it should be on the school's dime - not yours. If the IEP teams feels that the outside tutoring is helping, they should have this as an ESY service. I'm not sure this was considered since the IEP is silent on the fact that she's getting outside tutoring. When a student makes progress, the school assumes that what they are doing is the driving force behind the progress. In oth words: Without documentation showing your child is getting outside help, the school feels the IEP is FAPE because she is making progress with the help the school is providing. (This is a version of "if it's not in writing, it didn't happen".) The school is providing 750 minutes (12 hours + 30 minutes) of special instruction every week per page 16 and another 400 minutes (6 hours + 40 minutes) per page 17 and it looks to be helping. Given the additional 180 minutes of dyslexia-specific tutoring not mentioned, I'd say the reality is that the school's help isn't targeting the areas your child needs help with. The school MUST FACTOR IN the outside tutoring when considering if the IEP is appropriate. If she's in school 6 hours a day (keep in mind things like lunch, PE, art & music are part of the week), this is 3 full days every week where she gets SDI. I'd expect more progress.