HighSchoolParent

" what thoughts, feelings and emotions come up in IEP meetings themselves"

Anxiety about my child's future as they fall further behind grade level.

Worry about my child's self esteem as they work harder and harder to fall further behind. Worry that one day they will just give up trying. 

Anger that my child's disability symptoms are discussed as though they are character flaws. 

Frustration about being lied to (about my child's grades being inflated to deny services, laws being misrepresented to deny services) and not being able to think quickly enough or have the necessary facts on hand to refute the lies. 

Anger at having to scrape together the money for an advocate so the iep team will do what the federal government has already mandated them to do. And close on the heels is despair over educational inequity since hiring an advocate seems to be more and more necessary.

A headache from the strain of remaining tactful and polite while monumental decisions are being made for my child by people who don't understand his condition or needs. 

Occasionally, relief and even cautious hopefulness when it seems like goals and supports are being put in place. This is usually short-lived as the supports don't manifest. 

And exhaustion because I rarely sleep well before an IEP meeting. 

On 4/25/2023 at 9:33 AM, Household6 said:

You most certainly are not alone! 
 

My HS son is twice exceptional. It’s a term that not many are aware of. Because he presents as “typical” and has good grades, it’s a double whammy! 
 

We moved to a different state in middle school. All the new district sees is that he’s gone from 15 hrs of services in Kindy to 15 min in HS. So they’ve done their part! NO, YOU HAVE NOT! 

If they would have actually provided those 15 min per week of one on one, he would have soared even higher! 
 

So here we are looking at post-HS options and he’s scared he can’t make it in college.  And frankly, I am too. 

While my circumstances may not be as concerning as yours, I too find myself wallowing and searching for help.  I however, am blessed that his father (my husband) also sees the issues that remain. 
 

 

Thank you for your support, and sorry you are in this place also.

On 4/23/2023 at 11:52 PM, JSD24 said:

(((Hugs)))  With an IEP, he can stay in school up until age 21 so the school can teach him some of the skills he's missing.  There are assessments of ADL that he school could do.  They are supposed to set him up for success after HS graduation with the transition plan in his IEP.  What does your son want to do after HS?  IMO, you should start there.

Thank you! If this were going to happen automatically I'd be a lot less stressed. I do have an advocate who can help me with this, I am just feeling overwhelmed but the amount of work and money required to get the most basic support.

I don't have advice, but just want to acknowledge how hard it is to parent a child that has needs other parents in our immediate circles don't share.

For the mods/admins, is it possible to add parent support subforum. Not a place to ask for iep/504 advice because that is covered well in the rest of the forum, but a place to chat with parents whose kids have similar diagnoses and presentations, or just to say, wow today was really hard, that 3 hour iep meeting wore me out, ugh the only teacher in my child's school that understands him took a job in another district, and know the people reading can relate?

The post about the extraordinary burden of IEPs on Moms got me thinking today that the biggest burden I carry is the awareness of the extent of my child's challenges. He presents typically which creates an illusion of competence. The reality is that he is falling further behind grade level at school, and further behind his peers socially and with ADLs. I am holding him together in multiple ways and if something were to happen to me I have no idea what would become of him. Given his skill set I cannot imagine him living independently or supporting himself financially. I'm not worrying unrealistically. I worked with his age group for over 10 years and can see how far outside the norm he is, and how he continues to fall further behind. He'll be an adult in just a few years, the window to turn things around is rapidly closing.

His school doesn't see it. They alternate between not seeing his disability and blaming all the signs of it on him. Even his father doesn't see it. The other day he said he could picture our child becoming an engineer. My child cannot do a simple jigsaw puzzle and fails every single math and science test in the lowest level of class his school offers. While we cannot know the future I am not seeing engineer without some significant intervention. I'm the one who does all the IEP correspondence, pays for the tutors, finds and pays for the advocates, while my child's father naively assumes everything will be just fine and does (and pays for) nothing.

I feel so alone.

I'm not looking for advice, I have an advocate helping me with his IEP. I just want to feel less alone.

I have heard some young people are able to get special education services until their early 20s? What exactly does this mean; is this just for those who need extended time to meet graduation requirements or are vocational and life skills services included in this? Can any person on a IEP get services until age 21 or is it just for certain categories or types of needs?

Thank you for this response, both the information about how your son's relatively lower VSI affects him and to trust my gut instincts.

In my son's case, his VSI is both much lower than his other scores and objectively low (not in or anywhere near the average range).

When I posted my question I was wondering if my school uses a WISC report template and the sentence minimizing the importance of the VSI was standard verbiage in that template. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and I haven't received a reply to my request to see the research. I'm reluctant to say any more here because I think I find/retain an advocate who can work with me directly on all my concerns with his IEP.

Thanks. I need to give some thought about how to handle this. It seems part of a larger issue of my child's school underestimating his struggles and not giving him adequate support. 

I was looking over my child's WISC-V report and saw something that looked odd. The report described what each index measures, then my child's results. When describing the visual-spatial index it says that according to research, the visual-spatial index does not have a large role in academics. It seems odd to understate the importance of an entire WISC index. All of my research shows that it does play a large role in academics, especially in the upper grades. 

Is this a typical statement on a student's WISC report, or is it specific to my child's school? 

I don't have advice to offer but I had to reply to your post because I am in an extremely similar situation and can relate to your disappointment with the school and concerns for your child. My son was identified at the end of 8th grade and is in 9th grade now. He is so far behind on some essential skills that I fear he may never catch up. I've spent thousands on tutoring (which I don't have, I took out a home equity loan). 

I am very glad you have a lawyer but am so sorry you need one.

I am not sure how old your son is, but at some point is does seem appropriate for him to take ownership of his organizational system so he can start internalizing strategies to use in higher grades and vocationally. I wonder if this is the intention here? It sounds like a further conversation is needed about what they mean by 'self monitor' and if he is at an age and stage where it is appropriate for him to be owning more of the organizational tasks.

Disclosure: I am a parent, not an advocate or special ed teacher. This is just my opinion to be used if helpful or discarded if not.

On 1/31/2023 at 5:10 PM, JSD24 said:

If a student can pass a math test w/o word problems (because they can do calculations) but fail with word problems (because they can't read) that would be an adverse impact.  If they cannot do group work due to a lack of social skills, that's an adverse impact.  If your child can write an essay but it takes them 3X longer to get started because they don't know how to start/organize, that's an adverse impact.  If he has weakness & strengths that balance each other out where he's passing but if the weakness were supported, he could excel, I feel those weaknesses have an adverse impact.  There are lots of graphic organizers that can help with organizing writing.  He'll need an assortment so he has one that helps with the particular assignment.

I think giving examples to the IEP team would be helpful.

On 1/31/2023 at 10:23 PM, Jenna said:

I agree with all JSD24; I'm just curious what the school wrote in your son's most recent ETR because that document requires the district list the educational impact in each area evaluated. Double-check what they listed in this area and use that to support your arguments for the need for more goals/services/SDI in those areas. If there are areas that weren't evaluated, I'd write the IEP team and ask that those areas be evaluated.

Just trying to get a little more information here, I am still not certain what data could be used to show a need for more support in  planning long writing assignments and mathematical problem solving. 

On the WIAT his arithmetic scores were solidly in the average range so they determined there was no educational impact on math performance. There was no achievement testing for any other kind of math besides arithmetic. Is there a standardized assessment that would measure the kind of math high school students do?

His WIAT essay score was was very low, but his overall language index score was average and they said they went by the overall score, not subscores. We pushed and they administered the TOWL-2, which his scored average to above average on. However, his actual writing in class is very disorganized and vague.

My son qualifies under OHI, but to get certain goals added to his IEP I need to show his disability has adverse impact on his performance in those areas. What kind of data is helpful for this? Classroom assessments? Standardized assessments? If he fails every test on a specific topic, but does well enough on other topics that he passes the class, can his passing grade be used to disprove educational impact?

Specifically I think he needs goals in mathematical problem solving and organization of essays and research papers. I can see that he cannot do either of these things well and his grades on any assignment containing them are very poor (D's and F's), but he has enough other math and language arts skills that he can pass those classes.

A comprehensive list of every school in every state would probably be really hard and time consuming to create. I guess I am thinking more of a crowd sourcing thread where parents can share information about schools and programs they know about. There's a thread like that in College Confidential forum, but it is heavily high school based given the nature of the forum.

I know this forum focuses on the IEP and 504 process in public schools. Some of us aren't going to get our child's needs met through the public schools, either their needs are too specialized or the local school district's strategy to deal with the special education funding crisis is to deny services until parents are bled dry through through advocacy and due process costs.

For parents who are receiving compensatory funds or have decided to use their resources on school tuition rather than legal fees, it would be really helpful to have a list of private schools and programs that specialize in educating students with disabilities or independent schools that provide learning support to students.

Update, I sent a short email asking for an amendment to change the descriptor category. Five days later I have had no reply. I am left wondering if this is big enough to email again and how hard I will have to work to get the mistake fixed. This is why I find the IEP process so exhausting. Even getting a factual error corrected is time consuming and difficult.

14 hours ago, Carolyn Rowlett said:

Whether a typo or purposeful, this absolutely needs to be corrected.  I would email the IEP team now and ask for an amendment.

Thank you. I will do that. Sometimes I have a hard time knowing what to follow up on and what to let go, so I appreciate your confirmation that this is one to follow up on.

11 hours ago, JSD24 said:

I'd address this with a question:  I was looking over my child's IEP and saw where it said 78 on the WISC-V and this was listed as 'low average'.  A 78 is 'very low'.  Either the number score or the description is incorrect.  Can you please verify how my child did on this?

The typo might have been the number or the description.  I wouldn't want to assume which is misstated in the IEP.

I know the number is correct. The school psychologist wrote it and the correct descriptor in his report and we had a conversation about it in the meeting. The descriptor changed in the writing of the IEP.

I just noticed an error in my child's IEP. One of his WISC-V index scores is 78, which has a descriptive category of "very low." The school psychologist who did the evaluation wrote the correct descriptive category in her report, but everywhere in his IEP and diagnostic summary report, the descriptive category says "low average." Maybe it is a typo, but his school has a long history of denying his disability and this feels like more of the same.

I wish I had noticed this before I signed his IEP, but I was focused more on his goals and accommodations.

I try to keep my communication with the school to what is absolutely necessary. I don't want to nitpick every little thing, but this feels like a big thing. Should email them and ask them to correct it now, or wait for his renewal in a few months?

On 1/7/2023 at 8:50 AM, driven_cosmos said:

Organization and planning is addressed in a few ways.  He has difficulties with time management and planning for getting homework done, so they have worked with him to make a weekly plan for getting his work done, worked with him to create and use checklists (which are usually not that helpful).  They also help him break down complex or long term assignments / tasks.

My son is supposed to get this, too. It is weakly implemented though.

On 1/7/2023 at 8:50 AM, driven_cosmos said:

For writing, they have used checklists and graphic organizers.  They also work with him to identify what details from the text support his ideas, and on having all the required components of his essay.  I would say the implementation on the schools end for writing has been...so-so at best.  They seem satisfied once a student can write basic sentences, even in high school for a student with above average intelligence.  How does your son do on state testing for writing?  I was lucky to be in a state where topic and idea development on the essay was called out as a sub score and compared to other students in the district.

He is in a class that uses graphic organizers for writing so he gets this in a general way, but not exactly what he needs. I am not sure our state does a writing assessment at all, just math, reading, and science. There might be a writing section integrated into those tests, but I haven't seen a subscore.

On 1/7/2023 at 8:50 AM, driven_cosmos said:

Here is a really good article about the TOWL, especially with older students who do not have severe writing problems (aka, cannot write simple sentences).  

https://www.smartspeechtherapy.com/test-review-test-of-written-language-4-towl-4/

Here's a great resource for scoring on the WIAT essay test, and it probably helps explain why your son's scores were so much lower on this.  

http://images.pearsonclinical.com/images/Products/WIAT-III/WIAT-III_Quick_Scoring_Guide.pdf

Does your son already have a math goal and achievement testing data in math? If not, getting this data and adding that goal may be your next step because then you can discuss what specialized instruction is needed to meet that goal (ex pre-teaching / reteaching).  Make sure your neuropsychologist does the math testing again.  You can compare current and previous results to make a case that in-class support alone is not enough.

My son doesn't have any academic goals, just organizational. It was extremely difficult just getting him tested and qualified with organizational goals. Except for the essay score on the WIAT his academic achievement testing was average or above. However, the WIAT only tested arithmetic, not the complex and abstract stuff they do in high school. It is possible that if his current IEP were thoroughly and fully implemented he wouldn't need academic goals this year, but he definitely will for Geometry.

On 1/7/2023 at 8:50 AM, driven_cosmos said:

And one final note--IMO virtually no public school district is a functional school district post-COVID.  I heard from a parent center advocate that schools are considering ALL students to be 2 years behind grade level, and that this is considered "normal".  It seems like the amount a student needs to decline to be considered below "grade level" is ridiculous these days, especially if you don't have pre-pandemic data.

Thank you for the reminder. I know that every student is behind and struggling in some way. My daughter has been in private school since 2019, and probably experienced best-case-scenario for pandemic education. But even the counselors at her school have reported that students seem younger and less prepared than before the pandemic.

Thank you, Driven_Cosmos, this is very helpful. Could you say what kind of support your son gets for organization and planning? My son is supposed to have that but it is mainly a study skills class, which is helpful, but not targeted to what he needs. My son's writing scores were wide ranging. The Essay score on the WIAT was below the 10th percentile but the other subtest scores were high enough to disqualify him. His TOWL scores were also above average, yet the writing he produces in class is very disorganized. I can speak to the neuropsychologist about whether there is another writing test that better approximates what he does in class; the TOWL writing sample was just a story, it didn't require any organization of information.

It looks to me like we already have the data needed to show he needs support in Algebra and Geometry, yet it is still hard to get. He is in a low level class with a special education teacher present, but I don't know how much the special education teacher works with him or what kind of help he is given. I think he needs preteaching and reteaching outside the class, but I am not sure my school does that. Overall it is a very frustrating situation and even being on an IEP I am watching him fall way below grade level in just about every subject.

Thanks for the mention to keep an eye out for anxiety and depression; he seems to be pretty happy so far, but I worry that will change once he realizes how far behind his peers he is and the implications for his future.

I suspect my son with Developmental Coordination Disorder also has NVLD (WISC visual-spatial index is 78 and all the other indexes are in the average range, with verbal being his highest and more than 20 points above his spatial; reading scores on the WIAT are 10 points above his arithmetic, weak fine motor, poor motor planning, socially very naive). Although he did OK in math in the early grades he really struggled with Prealgebra and now Algebra. He needed extensive outside tutoring to pass Prealgebra and is barely passing Algebra even with the extensive tutoring. Given his visual-spatial WISC score I am anticipating Geometry (a graduation requirement) will be even harder. He also has a really hard time with academic writing (paragraph and essay organization and supporting his ideas with details are all very poor), but because his vocabulary and grammar are well above average he hasn't qualified for any writing support (he is allowed to type rather than handwrite, but does not get specialized instruction).

He was tested for ADD/ADHD in elementary school; the educational psychologist who evaluated him said he did not have ADD/ADHD, but suspected learning disabilities and particularly NVLD. The testing he did at school last year seems to support this. NVLD isn't in the DSM so it isn't a medical diagnosis, but does it carry any weight in education? He is having full neuropsych testing in a couple of months and if the neuropsych confirms he meets the criteria for NVLD, will that open any doors to further services? My school district is notoriously difficult to work with, so before I talk to them about modifying his IEP and adding services it is helpful to know what is typical in this situation in a more functional school district. I may need to go into due process over this so I want to make sure I am asking for supports that are warranted and effective so they stand a chance of being implemented.

Thanks for the reply but right now I am looking for an outside service because I don't trust I will get accurate, comprehensive information from my son's school. 

The school did all of the assessments except the BOT. I have already asked them for information and explanation but am looking for more. For example, my child scored in the 7th percentile in one of the WISC indexes, all they could tell me was that it was a skill that didn't directly affect education. The person who administered the test looked like she wanted to provide more information, but was cut off by the LEA. The OT said he probably scored below the 1st percentile on a portion of the VMI because he had a runny nose. I know I have a right to more details, but it would be cheaper to pay someone else to analyze the results that take my district into due process to get it from them. It sucks, it isn't best educational practice, but this is where things stand.